stonebender | alt.poly

If I'm guessing correctly which conversation you're thinking of, I wouldn't worry. I think you made good points, and I think the different perspectives *do* largely come down to differences in experience. There are certain people whose approaches to discussion tend easily to ruffle me--their counter-datapoints read more like "holier (or more clueful) than thou" to me, among other things--so I mostly just try to remember not to engage with those people. But then, since I liked the points you made, I'm selfishly glad that you did go ahead and get into the discussion.

Thanks! I'm always very impressed by your participation on the newsgroup. So if you think I've done all right, I'm much less aggravated. Sometimes I just need to check if I'm from another planet. I also lose perspective a little with this particular individual.

I don't think you're being insensitive.

Thanks Kai that means a lot. I enjoyed (am enjoying?) our discussion.

I don't think so. See my post on the group for more.

And FWIW I don't think anyone accused you of that (I saw you accused of acting dismissive, but that's not quite the same thing, in my mind).

I appreciate that you don't think I'm being insensitive. Being accused of being dismissive is pretty close in my mind to being insensitive.

"Is there some reason you're choosing to be dismissive?" Is not the same as "acting dismissive" in my mind.

OK, that all makes sense.

I think that your accuser is being a boob. Which isn't an unusual situation.

But that's just my opinion.

I hate to caste aspersions on boobs. I likes'em I does. :-)

Thanks for the feedback, my perspective is somewhat off around some individuals.

Not being on that particular forum I can't comment on whether you're being insensitive. However, I can certainly empathize about needing a thicker skin to participate in those fora. That, my friend, would be why I'm not on that forum: because I DON'T have that thicker skin. I hope you are able to grow one, let go, or avoid the triggering situations, as seems most appropriate for you.

(hugs) if you want 'em.

Thanks.

well, that's exactly what I was about to say. you know I've been a discussion board junkie, and I don't think it matters a whit what the topic is, there are going to be times when the format of typed words on a screen - whether you know the authors or they are anonymous is just going to reach the boiling point and then, just like fence-fighting dogs, many more teeth will be bared in that situation that ever would be if folks were face to face. I found I had to develop thicker skin, and it is so against my nature, so sometimes I feel like the persona that I post with is a slice of who I am but it certainly isn't the full, 3-dimensional me. boobies and all.

so there!

XOXOXOXOXO

(see, ain't I clever after all?)

The cleverest! Thanks

well, i don't think you were acting dismissive, but i can easily see how your reactions in that thread might have come across that way (and yes, i am taking the source of the "dismissive" remark into account :).

i had a pretty similar reaction, but i know i have it, and i try to stop myself from snarking back if it's somebody i usually know as thoughtful.

here's what i perceived: you asked a question about behaviour X. several people provided answers. you argued with the answers, pointing out how they're not unique to the issue; people went into more detail; you said your experience differs.

well, duh. of course it differs, that's why you didn't understand behaviour X to start with, i thought. this shifting of the conversational ground away from asking a question to iterating differing experiences is something i've often seen from people who really just want to kvetch about behaviour X instead of trying to understand it. that leaves some people who've tried to give information peeved because they feel their efforts have been wasted on somebody who's just been waxing rhetorically.

what works to counter that sort of effect is first adding some form of acknowledgment that you now understand behaviour X, even though you don't feel the same way about what motivates it. thanks for the explanations also go a long way, and you can then segue into your own motivations.

though it is not actually clear to me at this point whether you understand behaviour X now. :)

and yes, don't let people bother you this much. it's just a perception somebody got of you in one tiny thread. it should be pretty easy to clear up.

well, i don't think you were acting dismissive, but i can easily see how your reactions in that thread might have come across that way (and yes, i am taking the source of the "dismissive" remark into account :).

I didn't intend it that way. I suppose I sometimes expect more charitable readings of my posts from people I know. Silly given who I was responding to.

i had a pretty similar reaction, but i know i have it, and i try to stop myself from snarking back if it's somebody i usually know as thoughtful.

Similar to mine or his? Anyway,I try to stop myself as well. Clearly I'm not as succrssful.

here's what i perceived: you asked a question about behaviour X. several people provided answers. you argued with the answers, pointing out how they're not unique to the issue; people went into more detail; you said your experience differs.

well, duh. of course it differs, that's why you didn't understand behaviour X to start with, i thought. this shifting of the conversational ground away from asking a question to iterating differing experiences is something i've often seen from people who really just want to kvetch about behaviour X instead of trying to understand it. that leaves some people who've tried to give information peeved because they feel their efforts have been wasted on somebody who's just been waxing rhetorically.

Hmmm Actually, I thought I was asking a question as a way to introduce some thoughts I had. People responded to my question which clarified what confused me. So I made a couple additional comments. Then someone said that what I was sayng wasn't the point and that ITE cell phones excerbated the problems being enumerated. Which I replied to jokingly.

what works to counter that sort of effect is first adding some form of acknowledgment that you now understand behaviour X, even though you don't feel the same way about what motivates it. thanks for the explanations also go a long way, and you can then segue into your own motivations.

I'll try that next time. Although I thought I was doing that except in one case.

though it is not actually clear to me at this point whether you understand behaviour X now. :)

I don't. At least not the depths of some folks hatred of cell phones

and yes, don't let people bother you this much. it's just a perception somebody got of you in one tiny thread. it should be pretty easy to clear up.

I'll do my best.

my initial reaction was similar to his.

i think i see now another reason for the disconnect:

when you talk about not understanding people in this context, you mean that you don't feel the way they feel, and you don't know how they get there emotionally, yes? you do intellectually understand what people have explained to you, right?

i'd been approaching the questions from an intellectual point of view. i can usually learn to understand others intellectually, even if my emotions don't ever get there. frex, i can understand that somebody has a fear of dogs because zie was bitten as a child -- that makes sense intellectually, though i'll not really understand emotionally what it feels like to carry that degree of fear around for years when there are so many clearly nice dogs in the world, and why doesn't the person do some aversion therapy, and it's not really fair to all the non-biting dogs, and all the other things that go into emotional empathy for me. i try to base my actions on my intellectual understanding; that way i am not trying to eke out some reasonable judgment while trying to navigate what feels like emotional martian landscape.

when you talk about not understanding people in this context, you mean that you don't feel the way they feel, and you don't know how they get there emotionally, yes? you do intellectually understand what people have explained to you, right?

Yes, exactly!

i'd been approaching the questions from an intellectual point of view. i can usually learn to understand others intellectually, even if my emotions don't ever get there. frex, i can understand that somebody has a fear of dogs because zie was bitten as a child -- that makes sense intellectually, though i'll not really understand emotionally what it feels like to carry that degree of fear around for years when there are so many clearly nice dogs in the world, and why doesn't the person do some aversion therapy, and it's not really fair to all the non-biting dogs, and all the other things that go into emotional empathy for me. i try to base my actions on my intellectual understanding; that way i am not trying to eke out some reasonable judgment while trying to navigate what feels like emotional martian landscape.

That's very helpful to me. Thanks!

yay; intellectual and emotional understanding has been achieved. :)

I'm not on alt.poly, but I have fought with you before and probably will again. You're neither disissive nor insensitive. If anything, you worry too much about how the other person is feeling.

If you were truly dismissive, I doubt that you'd care enough to create this post. You'd just tell the other persaon where to get off (at least in your own head) and dismiss any further thoughts on the incident. That's not necessarily a bad reaction in my book, but I know you find it really hard to do ost of the time.

I'm not on alt.poly, but I have fought with you before and probably will again. You're neither disissive nor insensitive. If anything, you worry too much about how the other person is feeling.

I appreciate that Betty

If you were truly dismissive, I doubt that you'd care enough to create this post. You'd just tell the other persaon where to get off (at least in your own head) and dismiss any further thoughts on the incident. That's not necessarily a bad reaction in my book, but I know you find it really hard to do most of the time.

I thought I'd done that. I guess its something I have to "re-do" on occasion.

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